"Empower people and set them free": Matt Grest, The Very Group CIO, on remote work and new starters

Is low productivity a symptom of bad tech, or bad management?

"We need to return to the office - we're more productive when we're all together." It's been heard up and down the country at this point, but is the sentiment actually true? Or is lacking productivity at home the symptom of a wider problem?

Matt Grest, CIO of The Very Group, believes it's the latter.

"People, in the main, feel more productive [with hybrid working]. I think that's really important: after you've done a shift every day you want to feel that you're contributing, and we're definitely feeling that.

"On the other hand, there's people who have missed the social contact as well. Not necessarily demanding it five days a week, but [they enjoy] the fact that we can now come in and see people."

"But I don't think we've seen anyone in the tech and data team, under me, that's said, ‘I can't wait to come back to the office five days a week'. And that's because people feel that the mix of home and office equals higher productivity - that seems to be the big driver around it. And why wouldn't it be? I mean, the way I personally sort my diary out is that, for the days I'm in the office I do different types of things than the type of work I do at home."

Giving people the independence to define and structure their own working week - including their time in the office - is the best way to ensure productivity, says Grest. Nobody wants to battle through the commute only to sit at their desk with headphones on all day - which he calls, "Coming to the office for the sake of it."

There are times when being in the office is preferable: physical meetings are faster and more free flowing than those over Zoom or Teams, where people take it in turns to speak and the conversation gets bogged down in apologies about interrupting. Or, as Grest puts it, "You get five people around a whiteboard and the pace and velocity that people can work is insane compared to video."

But while he, and the rest of The Very Group, acknowledge the importance of office days, nothing is mandated. There's no all-staff email from the CEO or passive aggressive ‘I look forward to seeing you' notes left on desks. The focus is on the work - not presenteeism.

"Some people are coming in more than others, and that's fine. It's about outcomes. At the end of day, it's about outcomes: are we getting the work done? That wins over where you do it."

A steep hill to climb

Working like this can be great for people in the middle of their career, but what about new starters? Young people and career-switchers have faced an unprecedented challenge over the last two years, with little opportunity to learn from their colleagues in the office.

"I'm at a stage in my career where I'm confident and experienced - it's different if you're at the start. I remember when I was at the start of my career, you sat around a pod of desks with maybe five other people and you're just asking, ‘Can you help me with this?' and ‘Can I have a hand with that?' You're just shouting over the table and without knowing it, you're picking that stuff up."

Businesses can no longer rely on learning-by-osmosis; they must work harder to support new starters, and not only in terms of personal development. Fostering a sense of belonging is important, too - at least if you want to hold on to any new hires.

"You can make sure they're inducted in the right way, that they're learning about the business - that's a big challenge, which we faced into. We have a buddying system, so if a new person joins they're buddied up with someone. That's a challenge for the whole industry, really."

Under Very's system, new starters are assigned someone who is somewhere in between a mentor and a teacher. They're on-hand to answer questions and assist with development, which Grest believes is important not just for the new joiner, but for the long-term health of the industry.

All organisations have got to take this seriously

"If we get it right, we're setting these people on a path to a long and successful career. If we get it wrong and lie, you might be soured or put off the industry. I'm just determined that we get that right for the people at the start of the career, because then everyone's a winner, right? We get to help shape and develop an eager younger person, and in return we get them to add some great value to our business and be part of creating great customer experiences."

He added, "All organisations have got to take this seriously, because it's just different now. It's one of those million things that's different in the new world."

And he should know: Grest started at The Very Group in December 2020, when everyone was at home 24/7 and the office was closed, but demand for online goods was sky-high and the business was scaling fast. It was the deepest of deep ends. Still, he says, that was one of the attractions:

"I was very, very motivated by the opportunity at Very, the fact that we were re-platforming and online retail business is clearly a growth sector. The pull towards Very was much, much stronger than the ‘Bloody hell, is it the right time to change jobs right now and be a leader in the middle of a pandemic?'"

Empower people and set them free

It wasn't only the work that was a pull factor: when he joined, Grest says he found a friendly and welcoming culture, even though he could only meet his new colleagues via video call. But he still had to put in the work to form bonds quickly.

"I had to work really, really hard on the relationship-building, both with my executive team members and my direct reports, all of the many people around the organisation that I need to know. And what was great was, at the point where we opened the office for the first time in mid-2021, I was seeing people for the first time in the flesh, but felt like I knew them already. We'd been able to build a good relationship over video."

Grest and his team took the first opportunity to meet up in the office when they could, but it was primarily to build relationships, not for productivity. He still insists that forcing people into the office is not the right approach

"The risk is that some businesses just become very uncompetitive if they're mandating that [office presence] five days a week. And I think any business that feels that staff need to be in five days a week probably needs to just review their ways of working and communication tools. Maybe they haven't invested in that stuff, maybe that's the only way they feel they can run their business, having people in five days a week.

"Make sure that that team or the objectives of that team are clear, that everyone in the team understands what they need to achieve, that they understand the outcomes they're trying to achieve; give people the right tools to achieve those outcomes, and clear roles and responsibilities so people know what their job is - and then just empower people and set them free. People want to be productive; they want to get to the end of the day and feel that they've added value, and a good organisation just puts that framework in place so people can do that."